Sustainable energy on political agenda

Paul Lockyer discusses alternative power with the executive director of the Business Council of Sustainable Energy.

Transcript
PAUL LOCKYER: And one of the bodies leading the push for alternative power in Australia has been the Business Council for Sustainable Energy. Amongst its members are some of the nation's biggest energy suppliers. The Council's executive director is Ric Brazzale and he joins us now from our Melbourne studios. Good evening,
Mr Brazzale.

RIC BRAZZALE: Good evening, Paul.

PAUL LOCKYER: I wonder what you make first off of the Prime Minister's working party on global carbon trading?

RIC BRAZZALE: Well, we were really pleased with the Prime Minister's announcement because it is recognition that carbon trading is one of the most cost-effective ways to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and we're seeing carbon trading rolled out in a number of instances overseas.

PAUL LOCKYER: Mr Beazley says though it's just a bit of political cover for Mr Howard?

RIC BRAZZALE: Well, I think given the critical importance of climate change and the need to take urgent action, we think that it's really important to establish an investment framework to drive new investment in clean energy technologies and that's effectively what a carbon trading system does. So we think it's a really important initiative.

PAUL LOCKYER: I guess what we're asking here, is
Mr Howard genuine about this or is he just being driven by the polls?

RIC BRAZZALE: I think it's also driven by the need we do have to invest in additional power generation capacity and where's that investment going to come from unless we have a market signal, and carbon trading is happening internationally, so it's a really topical issue and Australia's, if you like, not leading the pack in carbon trading. In fact, we're actually following.

PAUL LOCKYER: Green Senator Bob Brown has also had his reservations about it. He says it’ll be taken over by the industrialists and driven by them?

RIC BRAZZALE: Well, we think carbon trading is a really important issue for the clean energy sector and we would expect that businesses active in renewable energy and clean energy will also be active participants in the working party.

PAUL LOCKYER: What would it take then to satisfy all those critics that we've heard from since this announcement, what would it take to satisfy you that the Government is genuine about this and in what timeframe would it happen in your view?

RIC BRAZZALE: Well, I think one of the key things is that we think it's really important to have some action soon and carbon trading will be a key part of any policy response to deal with climate change but we also need to see some other investment drivers. Some of the key things we'll be looking for is the make up of the working party and then it will really be around issues around what is the cap, what is the timeframe, and what are the penalties.

PAUL LOCKYER: Who would you like to see on the working party?

RIC BRAZZALE: We'd like to see a number of sort of our member companies, companies active in renewable energy, energy efficiency, gas fire generation.

PAUL LOCKYER: The Prime Minister says he's not a climate change sceptic but he is a bit sceptical, isn't he, when it comes to some of the alternative energy sources you represent, wind power in particular he was talking about that this week. How worried are you about that? How does that concern you?

RIC BRAZZALE: Well, I think one of the issues that our sector faces is that coal dominates Australia's power generation and it's seen as the incumbent power source, but we do need to remember that Australia is blessed with the wealth of other resources. We've got a fabulous wind regime, we're the sunniest continent, we've got geothermal resource and extensive gas resources. So I think it's only a matter of time before some of these other sources come into play.

PAUL LOCKYER: I don't think there's any doubt that the Prime Minister and his government are fully behind nuclear power. Where will you end up sitting in that framework in the future?

RIC BRAZZALE: Well, there's a number of countries around the world have no choice but to look at nuclear power because they don't have the wealth of resources that we have here in Australia. But from the numbers that we've seen, we believe that a lot of the clean energy technologies that we have now like solar, wind, gas, bio energy, even geothermal will be much more cost-effective than nuclear power in the short-term as well as the longer term.

PAUL LOCKYER: How long in fact would it take for nuclear power to kick in, even if they move quickly?

RIC BRAZZALE: Well, given the time it takes to develop and build a nuclear power station, you're looking at 10 to 15 years and the thing we need to be mindful of is that we have technologies that are available right now like solar, wind and bio energy and we need to start to deploy some of these technologies well before 10 to 15 years. In fact the Stern report that was released just the other week outlines that we only really have a window of 10 to 15 years. So it does require some urgent action.

PAUL LOCKYER: I guess the thing about alternative energy sources is that they've been too expensive. When do you think they'll become realistically viable, economically for the public?

RIC BRAZZALE: Well, in some countries around the world renewable energy is cost-effective now, like for example, wind in some European countries. Because we've had a
lot of coal-fire generation it's been relatively cheap and the coal-fired power generators haven't had to pay the costs of the pollution that their power stations emit. It's meant that renewable and clean energy technologies
have struggled to compete. But under an emissions trading regime or some sort of carbon pricing we would expect gas, wind, bio energy and even solar to be much more cost-effective.

PAUL LOCKYER: Australia has been slow by comparison to other countries in the world to move on global trading, what have we missed out on so far by not moving earlier?

RIC BRAZZALE: We've seen an inordinate number of clean energy projects being built in developing countries like China and India. I think there's over 400 projects that are now progressing through the clean development mechanism under the Kyoto protocol and I think a lot of Australian businesses and a lot of Australian technologies have struggled to get access to that market. There have been some notable examples but by and large we've been a late mover into the massive growing markets of China and India for new clean energy technologies.

PAUL LOCKYER: Well Australia talks about trying to get a new Kyoto off the ground, how realistic is that?

RIC BRAZZALE: Well, we think it's really important to have some sort of international arrangement and in fact an international cap on carbon emissions, but we need to be careful not to wait until that time comes and that could take some time to engage developing countries like China, India and the US, for that matter. But it's really important to remember that some countries like China, for example, have established a renewable energy target of 15 per cent and they've got energy conservation targets that are quite aggressive. So countries like China are moving now to actually reduce their greenhouse gas emissions and Australia could do well to follow China's lead in that example.

PAUL LOCKYER: Would Australia be better off finally ratifying the Kyoto protocol rather than trying to play around with a new Kyoto protocol?

RIC BRAZZALE: Well, I mean the Government has made it clear that it is not interested in ratifying the Kyoto protocol and we believe that's what's even more important is to make sure we've got a more effective regime post 2012 when the first commitment period runs out. But we need to turn to Australia and make sure that we position our economy to be able to compete longer term in a carbon-constrained world and that means we need to start to put in place measures to support the role out of some of these existing technologies that we've just been talking about.

PAUL LOCKYER: Well, in the best of all worlds, give us an idea of the future, 20, 30 years down the track and carbon trading is in place and your industries are prospering, how do we see the mix of energy that's supplying Australia between your - between what you've got, nuclear energy, and coal?

RIC BRAZZALE: Well, let me paint a potential picture. Because of the wealth of resources we have, we think that we could deliver greenhouse gas reductions probably much cheaper than a lot of other countries who don't have the wealth of resources. We could easily see a scenario where we have wind and solar accounting for 50 per cent or 60 per cent of our power needs and we would be utilising the available solar and wind resources when they're available and then we would be using a combination of geothermal, bio energy, hydro as well as natural gas to actually make up the rest of our power needs. So we can envisage a scenario in the not too distant future, 20, 25 years where a lot more of Australia's power comes from clean energy, renewable sources.

PAUL LOCKYER: An intriguing vision. Mr Brazzale, thanks for your time tonight.

RIC BRAZZALE: Thank you, Paul. Search Lateline
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